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	<title>Comments on: I choose science</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?feed=rss2&#038;p=900" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900</link>
	<description>Helping PC users make sense of Microsoft software since 1991</description>
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		<title>By: Adios</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2224</link>
		<dc:creator>Adios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2224</guid>
		<description>Time to unsubscribe.  Do you think you should&#039;ve indicated that your quote was from a satire site?  Oh well, your expertise was mediocre at best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time to unsubscribe.  Do you think you should&#8217;ve indicated that your quote was from a satire site?  Oh well, your expertise was mediocre at best.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Bott</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2225</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Bott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2225</guid>
		<description>Bye.

And just to be clear, the first paragraph from Tom Burka&#039;s Opinions You Should Have is a sad but true fact. The rest of the post is satire, as I hope most people would realize. I wish that the whole thing were satire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bye.</p>
<p>And just to be clear, the first paragraph from Tom Burka&#8217;s Opinions You Should Have is a sad but true fact. The rest of the post is satire, as I hope most people would realize. I wish that the whole thing were satire.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Brock</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2226</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Brock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2226</guid>
		<description>Ed,

I agree totally. 

By the way, are you suggesting that you don&#039;t believe that cargo is created by spirits across the great oceans and that it&#039;s not gifts meant for the Melanasians?

Not to politicize your blog, but it&#039;s become obvious that with some people facts are an irrelevant after-thought and that believing something makes it so...

tsb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed,</p>
<p>I agree totally. </p>
<p>By the way, are you suggesting that you don&#8217;t believe that cargo is created by spirits across the great oceans and that it&#8217;s not gifts meant for the Melanasians?</p>
<p>Not to politicize your blog, but it&#8217;s become obvious that with some people facts are an irrelevant after-thought and that believing something makes it so&#8230;</p>
<p>tsb</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Bott</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2227</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Bott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2227</guid>
		<description>Thomas, that&#039;s a completely open question. I believe students need to hear both points of view. Some people think consumer products are created in factories by workers, using machine tools and raw materials, in processes that conform to ISO 9001 standards. But who are we to say that cargo is not created by the gods and sent in silver chariots to the chosen people on the sacred landing strips they build?

Having multiple points of view is important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas, that&#8217;s a completely open question. I believe students need to hear both points of view. Some people think consumer products are created in factories by workers, using machine tools and raw materials, in processes that conform to ISO 9001 standards. But who are we to say that cargo is not created by the gods and sent in silver chariots to the chosen people on the sacred landing strips they build?</p>
<p>Having multiple points of view is important.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Brock</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2228</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Brock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2228</guid>
		<description>Seems to me, if we believe that the consumer products are sent from the gods, we don&#039;t have to worry about their quality of life...If workers (human) made stuff to be bought, well, heck...We&#039;d have to place value on that. 

Having multiple points of view is very important. One of the reasons I&#039;m very envious of my daughter (she&#039;s 4) is that she sees everything from such an innocent angle...I wish I could get back to that!

By the way, thanks for the great tip this morning on clearing out the desktop!!

Are you still having NewsGator Outlook Edition 2.5 issues? I&#039;m getting entries from months ago on mine...

tsb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me, if we believe that the consumer products are sent from the gods, we don&#8217;t have to worry about their quality of life&#8230;If workers (human) made stuff to be bought, well, heck&#8230;We&#8217;d have to place value on that. </p>
<p>Having multiple points of view is very important. One of the reasons I&#8217;m very envious of my daughter (she&#8217;s 4) is that she sees everything from such an innocent angle&#8230;I wish I could get back to that!</p>
<p>By the way, thanks for the great tip this morning on clearing out the desktop!!</p>
<p>Are you still having NewsGator Outlook Edition 2.5 issues? I&#8217;m getting entries from months ago on mine&#8230;</p>
<p>tsb</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2229</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2229</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the direct quote: I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought, Bush said. Youre asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes.</p>
<p>Certainly much different than &#8220;&#8230;combine science classes with folklore and mythology instead of having them in separate buildings.&#8221; Don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Bott</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2230</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Bott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2230</guid>
		<description>How convenient to leave out the first part of that quote, Matt: &quot;Both sides ought to be properly taught ... so people can understand what the debate is about.&quot;

The implication being that this &quot;science&quot; stuff is just one side, and that Creationism (let&#039;s call it by its true name) should be on an equal footing with science. It&#039;s a rejection of about 500 years of human endeavor.

As long as we&#039;re teaching &quot;both sides,&quot; why not allow the Flat Earth Society into the debate. And phrenologists. And spoon-benders.

There are controversies in science, but putting the known facts about evolution on an equal par with the creation legend is, to put it bluntly, bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How convenient to leave out the first part of that quote, Matt: &#8220;Both sides ought to be properly taught &#8230; so people can understand what the debate is about.&#8221;</p>
<p>The implication being that this &#8220;science&#8221; stuff is just one side, and that Creationism (let&#8217;s call it by its true name) should be on an equal footing with science. It&#8217;s a rejection of about 500 years of human endeavor.</p>
<p>As long as we&#8217;re teaching &#8220;both sides,&#8221; why not allow the Flat Earth Society into the debate. And phrenologists. And spoon-benders.</p>
<p>There are controversies in science, but putting the known facts about evolution on an equal par with the creation legend is, to put it bluntly, bullshit.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2231</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2231</guid>
		<description>Matt,

Bush&#039;s quote seems innocuous enough. However, Ed&#039;s point really (if sarcastically) was about the difference between evolution/orgin of species (the two are not the same, if they are often equated) and creationism. Evolution and the Darwinian origin of life are based on the application of the scientific method. Intelligent design attempts to explain the same evidence with theology: that is NOT science. Perhaps that should both be taught. They should not, however, be taught as science; only one is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>Bush&#8217;s quote seems innocuous enough. However, Ed&#8217;s point really (if sarcastically) was about the difference between evolution/orgin of species (the two are not the same, if they are often equated) and creationism. Evolution and the Darwinian origin of life are based on the application of the scientific method. Intelligent design attempts to explain the same evidence with theology: that is NOT science. Perhaps that should both be taught. They should not, however, be taught as science; only one is.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2232</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2232</guid>
		<description>Truth be told I just did a copy/paste of that quote from the MSNBC article linked in Ed&#039;s post. I should have found his entire response, shame on me.

Anyways, personally I live in Kansas, the state that every time a school district has to buy new sciences text books, the Bible thumpers come out of the woodwork to inflict Judaeo/Cristian creationist views on others.

The point I was coming from was from the MSNBC article, and the quote they had they seemed to have a very different bent than the one Ed portrayed... At least to me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth be told I just did a copy/paste of that quote from the MSNBC article linked in Ed&#8217;s post. I should have found his entire response, shame on me.</p>
<p>Anyways, personally I live in Kansas, the state that every time a school district has to buy new sciences text books, the Bible thumpers come out of the woodwork to inflict Judaeo/Cristian creationist views on others.</p>
<p>The point I was coming from was from the MSNBC article, and the quote they had they seemed to have a very different bent than the one Ed portrayed&#8230; At least to me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Bott</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2233</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Bott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2233</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, our media, in their zeal to be balanced even when the issues don&#039;t deserve it, present everything as if it were a debate. Let&#039;s get a quote from the &quot;other side&quot;! I notice that the MSNBC story included two quotes from far-right religious political groups and one from Democratic Congressman Barney Frank. Hmmm. Who&#039;s missing? Oh yes. Scientists!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, our media, in their zeal to be balanced even when the issues don&#8217;t deserve it, present everything as if it were a debate. Let&#8217;s get a quote from the &#8220;other side&#8221;! I notice that the MSNBC story included two quotes from far-right religious political groups and one from Democratic Congressman Barney Frank. Hmmm. Who&#8217;s missing? Oh yes. Scientists!</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Bott</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2234</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Bott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2234</guid>
		<description>Nicely said, Carl.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely said, Carl.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2235</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2235</guid>
		<description>Intelligent design theory is not science because it is not falsifiable and testable.  It is literally theology masquerading as science.  It doesn&#039;t belong in a science class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intelligent design theory is not science because it is not falsifiable and testable.  It is literally theology masquerading as science.  It doesn&#8217;t belong in a science class.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaine Ridling</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2236</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaine Ridling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2236</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush is yet another fool who believes what he is told to believe  &#8220;Saddam had nukes!&#8221; for example  and god-believers fall into that same mental comfort zone. Tell me what to think, and I will think it. Tell me what to believe and I will believe that. Tell me what to say and I will parrot it. Remember, no one ever asks Bush what books he has ever read. The man almost flunked out of Yale, and went AWOL from the 1970s National Guard! My 13-year old nephew could graduate from Yale, folks. But the kid&#8217;s not stupid enough to believe that creationism bull hockey.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2237</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2237</guid>
		<description>First, neither scientists nor religious zealots are not the arbiters of truth.

Second, the last time I checked, evolution is still a theory. Even Hawking has had to change his black-hole theory. Some theories are stronger than others. However, in every theory there is room for doubt.

Third, reasonable people can cogently discuss both points of view since both have elements of truth (depending on how one defines &quot;the truth&quot;).
 
Last, the voters of this country get the politicians they deserve. Many people complain but when you ask them what they did to try and change the outcome...silence.

Science and theology are not mutually exclusive folks. Take a look at Pascal&#039;s Wager.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, neither scientists nor religious zealots are not the arbiters of truth.</p>
<p>Second, the last time I checked, evolution is still a theory. Even Hawking has had to change his black-hole theory. Some theories are stronger than others. However, in every theory there is room for doubt.</p>
<p>Third, reasonable people can cogently discuss both points of view since both have elements of truth (depending on how one defines &#8220;the truth&#8221;).</p>
<p>Last, the voters of this country get the politicians they deserve. Many people complain but when you ask them what they did to try and change the outcome&#8230;silence.</p>
<p>Science and theology are not mutually exclusive folks. Take a look at Pascal&#8217;s Wager.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Bott</title>
		<link>http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=900&#038;cpage=1#comment-2238</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Bott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edbott.com/wordpress/?p=900#comment-2238</guid>
		<description>Actually, Pete, in the Western world scientists have been the arbiters of &quot;truth&quot; about observable facts in our physical world since the Enlightenment. Other cultures, east and west, believe the same. It was, after all, Arabic cultures that developed most of the basics of mathematics. In virtually all cultures, religious teachers are the arbiters of morals and philosophy. I don&#039;t know of any advanced culture that conflates religious myth and science.

As for &quot;evolution is just a theory,&quot; that&#039;s nonsense. Evolution consists of both facts and theories. The scientific community overwhelmingly accepts the broad outlines of evolution as a fact. Various mechanisms of evolution are still being debated, and there are various theories about those mechanisms that are being tested using accepted principles of scientific observation. But that&#039;s a far cry from saying &quot;evolution is just a theory.&quot;

In fact, the &quot;just a theory&quot; argument is one that religious zealots use as a code word for discrediting all scientific observation. Anyone who falls for it either neeeds to go back to school and learn about the scientific method or acknowledge that they&#039;re using an intellectually dishonest argument.

You&#039;ll find some good reading &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Pete, in the Western world scientists have been the arbiters of &#8220;truth&#8221; about observable facts in our physical world since the Enlightenment. Other cultures, east and west, believe the same. It was, after all, Arabic cultures that developed most of the basics of mathematics. In virtually all cultures, religious teachers are the arbiters of morals and philosophy. I don&#8217;t know of any advanced culture that conflates religious myth and science.</p>
<p>As for &#8220;evolution is just a theory,&#8221; that&#8217;s nonsense. Evolution consists of both facts and theories. The scientific community overwhelmingly accepts the broad outlines of evolution as a fact. Various mechanisms of evolution are still being debated, and there are various theories about those mechanisms that are being tested using accepted principles of scientific observation. But that&#8217;s a far cry from saying &#8220;evolution is just a theory.&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, the &#8220;just a theory&#8221; argument is one that religious zealots use as a code word for discrediting all scientific observation. Anyone who falls for it either neeeds to go back to school and learn about the scientific method or acknowledge that they&#8217;re using an intellectually dishonest argument.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll find some good reading <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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