TiVo versus MCE versus my cable company

These are rough times for a TiVo fanatic. The company and its groundbreaking box are getting squeezed into irrelevance. On the one side, cable companies offer their own DVR boxes, which may not be elegant but are easy and cheap. On the other side, you have PC-based solutions like Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, which do more than a TiVo and are improving by leaps and bounds every year.

I’ve been thinking about this topic for the past month, after I received a weekly Circuits e-mail on the topic from David Pogue, a sharp and funny writer for the New York Times. (It took me 20 minutes to navigate through the Times’ horrible search facilities, but I finally found David’s column online. You can read the whole thing here until the Times decides to put it behind their paid-subscribers-only firewall.)

Tivo_guyAnyway, David’s thesis was that TiVo (the company) isn’t doomed, because TiVo (the gadget) is so refined and elegant and ingenious that nothing should be allowed to compete with it. And to prove it, he provides a laundry list of features that make the TiVo so hip it hurts. The list comes with a qualifier, of course: “I do realize that many rival boxes have some of these features. But none that I know of offers all of these them — and especially not in such an easy-to-use, brilliantly designed software package.”

Green_buttonWell, it’s a very good list. And since I am in the enviable position of owning a Series 1 TiVo, two PCs running Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, and a high-definition Explorer 8300HD digital video recorder from Scientific Atlanta, I thought it might be instructive to compare all three.

One caveat first: My Scientific Atlanta HD-DVR runs the miserable SARA software instead of the slightly less miserable (or so I’ve been told) Passport software. So if you have a Scientific Atlanta box, your experience may be slightly better than mine. So now, without any further ado, let the comparison begin! My commentary is in italics following David’s original words. (Update: Note that the text at the top of each bulleted point is from David Pogue’s list. Although I noted earlier that I own a Series 1 TiVo, I think it’s safe to presume that David’s write-up was based on a Series 2.)

  • Retroactive recording. You come home, flip on the TV, and discover that you’re 35 minutes into what looks like a great show. If you have TiVo, you can either rewind into the past (to view what you missed while the TV was off) or even record it, thanks to the TiVo buffer that always stores the most recent 45 minutes of the current channel.
    To the best of my knowledge, TiVo’s buffer is 30 minutes, not 45. MCE keeps a similar buffer but doesn’t allow you to save it. That’s one of the few flaws in MCE. The SARA software keeps a buffer and lets you record it.
  • Wish list. On a TiVo, you can type something — an actor, movie title, anything — that you’re interested in, even if it’s not anywhere in the TV guide. If and when it’s ever broadcast, on any channel at any time, the TiVo will record it for you.
    You can do this with MCE as well. In fact, the MCE interface is a bit easier to use, in my opinion. SARA does nothing at all like this.
  • Built-in reaction time. When you’re fast-forwarding through a show (or, more often, through commercial blocks), you’re watching the video flickering by. And then you see the part you want to watch — and hit Play. Now, on a less intelligent machine, you’d be too late. You’d have missed the first 20 seconds of what you wanted, because the fast-forwarding had already blown past it.
    But not on a TiVo. It compensates for your reaction time. When you hit Play, it doesn’t begin playing from that point; it begins playing a few seconds before that, with uncanny “it knew what I wanted” accuracy.
    MCE has this option as well. It’s called Reaction Time Compensation, and it’s customizable using the TweakMCE PowerToy. [Update: As Matt Goyer points out in the comments, this tweak didn’t work properly. It was in the first iteration of TweakMCE included with the Winter Fun Pack but was removed from the standalone version now available for download.] SARA doesn’t do this, and the absence of this feature makes the experience of watching a recorded program annoying.
  • 30-second skip. It’s not a documented trick, but it’s nonetheless a juicy and delicious one. Press the following buttons on the remote while a show is playing back: Select, Play, Select, 3, 0, Select. Now your Advance button is a 30-second skip button. Press the same sequence again to turn off this feature. (You have to re-do this after a power failure.) It’s a much quicker, more precise way to skip ads.
    This is an undocumented trick on TiVo, but on MCE it’s a well-documented feature. In fact, the MCE remote control even has a Skip button dedicated to this function, as well as a Replay button that jumps back in 7–second increments. SARA has a “jump back” button, but you have to push it after you fast-forward too far.
  • Season pass. On many DVR’s, you can ask to have a certain show recorded every week automatically — “Desperate Housewives” or whatever. But on a TiVo, you get some important options with that. For example, you can tell the TiVo to record only first-run episodes and not repeats. And you can give it a maximum number to store, so you don’t return from a two-week trip to find 579 new and syndicated reruns of “E.R.” clogging your hard drive.
    MCE_series_settingsMCE offers this exact functionality and then some, including a “once per day” option that TiVo doesn’t have. (Click the image shown here to see the full screen.) SARA offers only “Record one” or “Record all” options, and the record settings are specifically tied to a given time slot. If your show gets moved in the lineup, it may not be recorded.
  • TiVoToGo. A software upgrade, which is arriving silently over the phone lines this month and next, lets you copy shows onto a Windows laptop from across your home network for watching on the plane, train or automobile.
    It looks like TiVo has a lot of work to do on this feature. I can’t say, because my Series 1 box doesn’t support it. By contrast, I can freely copy any recorded program from my MCE machine to any other machine and watch it using Windows Media Player. SARA doesn’t allow any access to recorded programs.
  • Folder groupings. Your list of recorded shows can be sorted by name, recording date or expiration date — and can arrange themselves into “folders” of shows (for example, all your “West Wing” episodes) to save list clutter.
    Ditto for MCE. I can also tag recorded files with star ratings and sort them in Windows Media Player on any attribute, including station name and channel. SARA gives me only a crude alphabetical list of my recordings.
  • Smart offers. If you bail out of watching a recorded show within a few minutes of the end, TiVo asks if you want to delete the recording to free up hard drive space. That’s smart; it’s assuming that since you’re near the end, you’ve probably watched all you intend to watch. (If you cancel playback in the middle or beginning, though, TiVo doesn’t bother you with that offer; it assumes you’re not finished with the show yet.)
    MCE-menu-stopWith MCE, every time I stop a program, I get a short menu of options that allow me to choose whether I want to Resume, Restart, Delete, or Keep it. If I choose Keep, I get a second menu with more sensible options. I can bypass any of these choices by going straight to the main menu. Personally, I prefer this option over TiVo’s supposedly more intelligent behavior. I often record a program, watch a minute or so, and realize I have seen it before or it’s on a subject that I’m not interested in, and I want to just delete it. SARA makes me go through a similar menu whenever I stop watching a program, but the choices aren’t particularly well thought out.
  • Retroactive TV guide. The Guide button on the remote brings up a scrolling TV guide. What’s really cool is that, for a given channel, you can scroll both forward into the future (to see what will be in HBO in, say, two weeks) and into the past (to see what was on earlier this day or week). Both are very handy in certain circumstances.
    MCE’s guide doesn’t look into the past, but it works just fine when looking at the future. MCE also offers a very cool Web-based guide and a Remote Recording service that lets you schedule a recording on your MCE from any computer. [Update: A Series 2 TiVo with a TiVo Central Online account can do the same.] SARA has a guide that goes only 6 days into the future, which is not nearly long enough.
  • Recording log. TiVo can show you what you’ve recorded — and, when something you requested did not get recorded (it happens), it can show you exactly why. It will tell you that your hard drive was full, for example, or that somebody in your house scheduled a conflicting show and gave it higher priority.
    Yep, MCE does this too. In fact, every such event is also captured in the Windows Event Log, so you can dump it to a text file or a spreadsheet for further analysis. SARA does no such thing.

Bottom line? Feature for feature, Windows XP Media Center Edition matches TiVo and even exceeds it in some measures. I could put together a list of MCE-only features that I especially like. For instance, the Movies button lets me scroll through all movies available in the current guide, sorted by rating. Once a week I go through and pick out a selection of great films from Turner Movie Classics, American Movie Classics, HBO, Starz, and Sundance Channel, which means I always have a selection of interesting movies to watch. I can copy any recording to DVD in WMD format or use a third-party program to make a disk that will play in any DVD player. And I can use my Media Center Extender to play anything from the Media Center PC (which is in the den) on the TV in the bedroom.

And now let’s talk about the two elephants in the room that David’s column don’t mention at all:

  • HDTV. TiVo doesn’t do it at all, unless you pay $1,000 for a DirecTV with TiVo and then sign up for a service that in my case costs $30 per month more than my cable bill. MCE does HDTV, but not particularly well. It doesn’t accept input from my cable box, only from an over-the-air antenna. Rumor has it that will change later this year, but for now it’s the big advantage for my cable company, and the only reason I’m willing to put up with the horrible SARA software.
  • Multiple tuners. Again, TiVo gives you one tuner per box, unless you’re willing to pony up for the pricey DirecTiVo solution. By contrast, my MCE box supports multiple tuners, and I currently have a Hauppauge dual-tuner card that does a superb job. The 8300HD has dual tuners as well, which means that I get to watch both Lost and The West Wing each week in HDTV.

I bought my first TiVo in 2000, when the company was only a year old. I was a charter member of the Cult of TiVo. But these days, I don’t miss it. The Media Center interface is every bit as usable, with some clear technical advantages as well. If the 2006 upgrade delivers on the promise of HDTV through a cable card, I’ll finally be back to one box that does it all.

 

149 Responses to TiVo versus MCE versus my cable company

  • name says:

    MYTHTV!

  • Jubcha says:

    You really can’t compare a 1999 Tivo against a 2005 Media Center PC.

    At a minimum you should have used a Series 2.

    Even better is the HD TiVo, which is cheaper than your 2005 Media Center PC.

    -MB

  • dm says:

    The thing I like about my TIVO’s is the ease with I’ve modified them, and I’ve done so extensivly. I have two type 1 DTIVO’s and one type 1 standard TVIO. I’ll be investing in an HD DTIVO once I confirm that I can modify it as extensivly as I have my type 1 TIVOs.

    All of them are now extended to several hundred hours of recording time, all of them have 100mb ethernet and a web interface. I can pull off video from all of them and use it on any of my PC’s or burn them to DVD, or share it to any other TIVO (in my house or if a friend has a modified TIVO to them).

    All of them have Caller ID on the screen and other features I like. We also can read email from our TIVOs when we are not watching a show. Overall for the price you will have a hard time getting me to give up my TIVO’s. Another feature I really prefer is that the TIVO never crashes, that is for sure not something you can say about the MS Windows product.

    As to the “pricey DTIVO” comment, well pricewise I paid less then $50 for each of the DTIVO units and $99 for my standalone TIVO. I’ve invested less then $200 per unit to upgrade them to include features that no off the shelf machine offers.

  • Ed Bott says:

    I wish I had a Series 2 TiVo, but I don’t. My parents and my father-in-law do, though. Anyway, remember that the original TiVo features in the comparison are from David Pogue’s article, and he most assuredly is using a Series 2.

    I’ve got MythTV on my list of things to try. I’ve got lots of hands-on experience with BeyondTV as well, which has some nice features but requires a lot of hands-on integration.

    As to cost, I believe my homebrew Shuttle SFF MCE box cost about the same as an HD TiVo and has the extra benefit of handling digital music and photos, which was essential for me. You can see the list of components here.

  • Maestro says:

    I hate to sound like a honk for the cable company, but I have Time Warner with the built in DVR. I sold my TiVo once I got it. Has 2 tuners, easy interface, and works great. Also has HD.
    When I had TiVo, I hated the fact that it would change the channel I was watching to record something.
    So, Honk Honk.
    M

  • Sean McLeary says:

    great write up. one correction, though: the reaction time compensation calibration does not work in MCE. in fact, it was removed from the stand-alone release of Tweak MCE. it’s really too bad because there’s nearly no compensation as is in MCE. my reflexes suck which makes fast forwarding nearly unusable — i only use skip to move past commercials and the like.

  • David Anderson says:

    I have used all expect the HD Tivo. In the end I own a replaytv and an lg 3410a. I could not live with having to pay for digital cable to be able to get the HD recorder. If the 3410a had multiple tuners it would rival the HD Tivo. It has a free guide and both ATCS/QAM tuners. I bought the replaytv to keep only HD on the 3410A.

  • Brad says:

    My Time Warner Cable DVR has most of the features listed above, and my SageTV box (home built) has the others… All in all, I am very happy with the Time Warner Cable box, and gaining appreciation for SageTV.

  • Malc says:

    Canadians who want to own a Tivo: check out http://www.tivocanada.com/ (outdated instructions) and http://forums.tivocanada.com/ (need to prove Candian residence, and then you will be shown the easy way to get a Tivo running north of the border). I have a Series 1 Tivo that works great here in Toronto. I would suscribe to the Tivo service if they offered it here.

    BTW, the 30/45 min live TV cache is probably related to disc space. I upgraded mine from 30GB to 80GB and its cache is over an hour, except when I need to delete some shows.

  • dave says:

    Re “smart offers” — with TiVo you quickly learn that if you want to give up on a show no matter where you are in it, you hit TWO buttons in succession: you hit the “jump to end” button immediately followed by the “list” button. That ensures you always get the “delete this show?” offer, because you were at the end of the show when you hit List. Four clicks to get to the list with the show deleted (End; List; Up; Select).

    Re being able to scroll all movies by title? Go to Pick Programs to Record, to “Pick by Title”, and you are offered a loooong list of types of shows. Don’t just click “All programs” — scroll down to movies, or sports, or music, or whatever category, then go right. The next screen is the alphabet matrix, just hit Select to put up an “A” and go right over to the list. You are now in an alphabetical scrolling list of all titles of Movies or whatever other category of show you selected. All sports shows? All Music? etc.

    You can qualify the “wish list” entries the same way: look for “stooge” only in movies, or only in documentaries, etc.

  • stone says:

    what about the impact of a mod’ed xbox running XBMC? combine that with bittorrent to snag tv shows, it just like having a DVR. now granted, you dont get the immediate tv viewing satisfaction like with tivo since you usually have to wait half a day to download the shows as they come out, but so what. i can wait. plus the added bonus of then archiving entire seasons of shows to dvd-r.

    now i used to have a UTV back in the day, so the only real feature i miss is one button recording and pausing and 8 second rewind of live tv. but to be honest i really dont watch that much live tv anymore. i just download the shows i know i want.

    i’ve been wanting to get a second mod’ed xbox so i can run mythTV on it, but i just havent gotten around to it yet.

  • Josh Suhr says:

    At one time or another, I’ve had a standalone S1 Tivo, MS UltimateTV, and two S2 DirecTivos. I’m currently using Comcast’s Motorola DCT6412 HD DVR, and must say that save for a couple annoying (but not critical) bugs, it does most everything pretty well, especially for the $10/mo price.

  • Dave Owen says:

    Just one comment about this:

    “for the pricey DirecTiVo solution”

    Right now, it’s $49 if you’re a new DirecTV subscriber, and $99 if you’re an existing subscriber, even if you already have a DirecTiVo — and your fee for the first covers your additional units. So “pricey” might not be the best word to use. ;)

  • Raymond Camden says:

    Am I the only one who doesn’t like the “smart reaction” thing?? Maybe my reaction time is faster than most, but I have no problem hitting play at the right time. I _hate_ the fact that it backs up to “help me.” When I first got my DVR (from COX), this confused me until I figured out I could hit Pause, then Play, and it wouldn’t compensate.

  • Ed Bott says:

    Re “pricey”… It’s fair enough to note that the SD DirecTiVos are not that expensive, but I personally wouldn’t switch to DirecTV without the HD option, which I think everyone can agree is not just pricey but expensive.

  • none says:

    That was one crappy article indeed.

    The DirectTVTiVO is not pricey, even with DualTuners.

    My DualTuner device was $99 for 70 Hours, and all it required was that I run another line from my Sattelite.

    Very poorly done article in general. Tivo is doomed.

  • Joe Mamma says:

    Why no mention of ReplayTV (superior to Tivo)?

  • Ed Bott says:

    I don’t own a Replay TV, so I can’t comment on it.

  • Paul Martin says:

    I have 3 Series 1 Tivo units. One 14 hour (when they first came out) and 2 60 hour units. I was a real believer in the Tivo. I use cable because in the midwest storms knock out the satellite from time to time so no DirecTivo for me. Our local company has HDTV but no DVR and all the software I have seen on the DVRs has not really been that impressive. I started looking for an alternative and found MCE. I put in on a high end processor with a Firewire drive for recorded storage and was very impressed. Features that I can’t get with Tivo are content like Napster for music and Internet movies. With MCE, I can burn a DVD or CD of my recordings and take them with me. I can watch Divx and Xvid recordings on it. I can browse the web on my big screen TV. MCE is expandable. I know I will get Cable HDTV later this year for it. I know I can keep adding features and content that I want and ignore the stuff that I don’t use. Tivo suggestions for the most part are not really that great for me and I have ended up turning them off. Another cool feature of MCE is that you can take an Xbox and run the MCE extender on it to do most of what MCE does (although it lacks divx and xvid codecs), but you can watch recorded or live TV and listen to music. MCE gives me an all-in-one-box solution by having a PC/DVD/CD Player/Tivo/MP3 Player/FM Receiver and much more. Yes it is pricey, but so were my 60 hour Tivos (at $700 a pop). Yes it is a PC, but if built correctly with well known compoenents, it can be pretty stable. I have to reboot my cable boxes every couple of weeks anyway. The big point with MCE is that it can change and grow and with Microsoft behind it, content providers will line up to support it.

  • Stan von Kotin says:

    I’ve got a DVR running Passport and it is a huge improvement over SARA. True, it doesn’t have the same robust functionality as a TiVo, but $7 a month and a free DVR box is more cost effective than a TiVo box and $12+ a month for service. The only cheaper option I’ve seen is the DirectTV/TiVo combo, but then you are stuck with a satellite dish, which IMO is total crap. It rains too much where I live to make satellite worthwhile…

    MCE is good in theory, but I’m not ready to sacrifice my main box as a glorfied DVR, and I can’t justify spending another $300 to upgrade one of my auxillary machines with a better video card, HD, motherboard, and processor so it will be able to record video seemlessly. IMO, it’s a non-competitor in the market at this point. Until MS develops a standalone DVR box ala-XBOX, they will not seriously contend for market share. As it stands I’d rather save my $150 (or however much they are charging for the OS right now) and contain any attempts at PC based digital recording to tinkering around with a Linux based Freevo box .

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